First Date Lays 5
Yet again I find myself in a situation which I hate. I get a good lead from Daygame, I work my text game, I get her out for a date and make out with her… but don’t lay her. I then take her on a second and third date and still do not fuck her. She shows some interest, but I sadly look back and in hindsight realize the frisson was stronger on the first and second date. The frame has changed. Whereas on the first and second date she was wowed by me, a little giddy and floppy, now she still shows interest but that has diminshed. She’s put me on a sort of K selection pathway.
Usually I keep trying the same shtick from the first and second date and all that happens is it makes me look needy. The frame flips then I find myself having moved from a position of power to the position of pursuer. Responses to text messages are slower and more intermittent. I’ve been put into a ‘holding pattern’ as ‘one of the guys interested in me’. I’ve been popped on the shelf like a can of beans for winter. She then prioritizes everything in her life above pistoning my dick in her vagina: friends, work, job, being tired – everything ranks higher than the can of beans.
The only way to maintain frame and control with a girl is to crank a fuck into her in the first three dates. Once you’ve fucked her then you retain the power. She knows you’ve had the notch, so she now has to work to keep you interested and not be a pump n dump. There is no middle ground. If you don’t fuck them quick: they will treat you like crap.
The problem with this girl was a couple of things. First, I was way out of practice and my calibration was off. Being an amber lights girl it’s sad to realise she was probably fuckable (in principle, however see next point) on date one. Second, she threw ridiculous stupid-bitch obstacles in my way. On the second date, the one where the sparks were flying and it seemed on, she suddenly blurted out that she’d arranged to meet her friends in twenty minutes. I tried pretty hard to get round it but she was insistent and I couldn’t sway her. That was it: moment gone.
That one was classic ‘derailment’: a girl throwing last minute crazy bullshit in your way to prevent being laid. I’m beginning to realise how strong you have to be to clear the derailment obstacle. You have to literally ignore every obstacle and wash them away like a tsunami. I should have shouted her down, I should have guilted her into ‘one final drink at my favourite bar’, I should have tricked her into a taxi and driven her to a bar far away. I should have met the friend and pressured the friend into letting me take her ‘for one final drink’.
Learning points.
Over the last year and a half I’ve consistently had very nice targets on dates, not fucked them on the first or second date then had the leads disappear. Looking back through my life I realise that every girl I have fucked could have been fucked on the very first date bar a couple of exceptions. Something has to change. I need to start doing things differently or I’ll only ever get the same results. It’s frustrating: my daygame is working ‘ok’ in terms of getting nice girls on dates; it’s my date-game that’s lacking. From now on it’s two dates or bust. I am literally going to wipe the lead away if she is unfucked by the end of date 2. With this in mind, I’m going to crash the train more on dates and act as if the girl will evaporate forever the minute she says goodbye at the end of date 2. Even more than this, I’ll only even think about a second date for certain girls. I’m going to escalate more, speed things up and watch out for derailment. When I see it: I’m going to brutally barge it aside and keep barging. If it’s date 2, I’ll go so far as to burn the lead.
As for dates: I have more changes to implement, but I’ll discuss this later.
Jun 05, 2015 @ 21:45:31
Hey,
happens to me too. My new tactics is one date, no routines, just sit close, keep it fun, sexual and escalate, love bubble…basically Steve Jabba style. It’s a big frame push. All the routines – questions game, parody this, parody that…it’s all good but in the greater scheme of things it’s avoidance. You try to carefully balance and artificially prolong something that maybe isn’t there in the first place. But it feels so good. The girls are pretty, the vibe is right…I want more of it…and then it goes to shit.
Looking back, I’d always prefer street/first date harsh rejection than her being disrespecful at 4th date and never really respecting me again as a man.
I think Steve is right. Approach with dump of sexual tension, touch etc., this continues on date and you add intimacy…
I am often reminded how weak maybe girls and no girls can fuck you up mentally while other girl, let’s call her yes girl, won’t give you any real obstacles. But our ego thinks we need to “crash the car”, go for the best girl possibly obtainable for us. This rabbit hole is terrible. But guy like me doesn’t want to lose the coffees with stunners. So he loses their respect and wastes a lot of time.
Same thing with clever, long, flirty, sexual text exchange. Wrong. Take a step back. If it’s too many messages, you’re a pussy and she knows. Get her out.
Seducer is quick and has sex in his mind, as the turning point of power. The push is in villingness to screen her out. Easier said than done though. Honesty helps. I find when I’m too routiney, or clever, it weakens the intent. I like Tom’s podcast on Royal Flush.
Idk what’s your opinion but I feel both Tom with his Royal Flush or Nick with his Picking Up Pennies In Front of a Steamroller already identified this in their game.
I’d reccomend to anyone to start of right, without bullshit, to start with Jabba game as outlined in Secret Society.
It kind of hurts to realize after years of expert learning. But the gold is in sexual tension, honesty, SMV building to make the net wide, IOI’s, quick progression, yes/maybe girls. Simple, effective, efficient, painful.
Jun 05, 2015 @ 21:52:46
Also I’d be careful with tricking her, being ultra persistent. This may lead to similarly bitter aftertaste. It’s not all about “getting the bang”, is it? Plus one? The lover card can be presented in a calm, positive manner. I’m no authority but that’s what I aim for.
Jun 07, 2015 @ 00:10:51
Do you have this same problem with girls you date from social circle (if you’ve got one set up in BA yet)?
My guess is that these girls are physically attracted to you, but don’t dig your ‘social standing’. (Although take that idea with a grain of salt as you are actually there and I am just some bloke lying on the couch commenting).
Guys on forums tend to run into the “I need an idea for a fun date” problem. Because they don’t have a nice group of male and female friends that they regularly go out with. This is a bit unfair as you probably won’t have this in BA yet, unless you have already joined a pre existing social circle (e.g. People working at your language school, people working at the bar that you work at).
Before you give me a slap for suggesting social circle as a means of avoiding cold approach… I’m not suggesting getting involved in one for that reason at all. Just that a certain percentage (majority?) of girls want social standing of some sort, and if you don’t have it, it comes through in your body language and they’ll keep turning down sex on dates until they suss this out.
Jun 09, 2015 @ 23:16:09
one of the best posts i’ve read in a while.
Jun 13, 2015 @ 15:56:16
This is kind of weird that you are still at this particular sticking point. You have several years of theory and application under your belt. You’ve had access to some of the best gamers in Europe. I’d think you would have come up with a system to follow on dates, or just copy one that other successful guys like Krauser uses. I read daygame mastery and K outlines an incredibly detailed date system in there. Combine that with a physical escalation ladder and you should have a “map” of sorts to follow on a date. If she doesn’t fancy you you’ll find out quicker than date 3 and save yourself from wasting time.
A good salesmen is always looking to disqualify broke deadbeats who have no intention of buying. To do that he follows a system.